人資的專業是什麼 - 職場
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By Vanessa
at 2019-08-05T10:24
at 2019-08-05T10:24
Table of Contents
文章太長,我刪掉一些內容一條一條回你
※ 引述《REN0 (飛翔的任)》之銘言:
: 【1.人資專業精簡介紹】
: A.招募與甄選 (選)
就我知道的在台灣,高薪一點的位置其實都是透過Hunter
幾家不透過Hunter的就是M$、Google...之類一些領導地位科技產業
(不過派遣工(Contractor)還是會有人力仲介公司幫忙招募就是了)
外商大藥廠天天用Hunter、外商FMCG高一點薪水的也都用Hunter
為什麼不In-house recruiter? 因為好的recruiter年薪大概就是一百五起跳
問題是缺又不是天天開,不如給hunter去做
就我接觸過的啦,外商藥廠那種多數傳統HR做上來的腦袋都跟不太上時代
少數從Hunter端來的、甚至有些非正統(可能待過業務、技術相關)通常都比較活
實際上recruiter本身需要對市場非常敏銳
你要講得出來公司產品強在哪
你要講得出來產業願景如何
你要講得出來候選人的職涯可能性
你要跟不同的候選人去交換資訊
我認識的厲害的國內外Hunter/recruiter是會去讀一些期刊的
看不懂專有名詞沒關係,至少要了解應用
: B.企業教育訓練 (訓)
教育訓練這一塊,我覺得HR能安排的通常都是軟性技能
或是法規要求的常態性課程
說真的,沒什麼太難的地方
: C.績效管理 (用與留)
那個,我以為HR績效這塊只教大家怎麼把東西放進去系統裡面
請問一下HR要怎麼設定專業的量化指標給部門?
工程師們的指標要怎麼設定? 業務指標要怎麼設定? Marketing指標要怎麼設定?
HR能做的就是告訴大家你們在系統裡面要填那些東西
剩下的就是跟主管說: 你們今年必須要有幾個C就這樣
績效連結薪酬? 我在藥廠的時候是有專門的人在算的
那個人絕對不是HR,而是策略部門(Strategy team)
因為每一季的累進指標都不一樣,要達到實質有鼓勵的效果
就必須要跟著市場概況去調整
HR數字能不要搞錯就好了
: D.薪酬管理 (用與留)
說真的...這只有勞基法改的時候你需要跟工程師配合一下
把系統的東西修進去
現在一堆東西都系統化了,薪資這種除非全公司結構大改
不然每個月給薪的東西都有ERP幫你解決了
某些補助審核可能比較討厭,因為你要單據下去看
可是像是油資補助之類的業務性質補助都是會計在看的
另外像你說的薪資級距也只是買外面的報告阿
我還沒看過會用統計軟體分析的HR呢
: E. 接班人計劃
這個也能算是重要工作?
不管是啥接班人/Starter/領袖 blablabla計畫
通常都是招海龜背景學歷漂亮的人進來啦
每個部門稍微沾個醬油,然後就開始空降塞成小主管
接著就是看造化,心理素質強的就會活下來
一堆基層能力不錯的都是被忽略的那群 呵呵
: F.人力資源發展策略
那個,台灣HR基本上最缺的就是這塊
連自己公司做什麼東西好像都搞不太懂
只會念PPT上面公司的簡介
競爭對手現在在做什麼你知道嗎?
國際相關產業狀況你知道嗎?
如同我上面說,細節或是原理無法理解沒關係
一堆IT相關產業的HR連S&P500出來的候選人都說人家是小公司呢XDDDDDD
: 【2.台灣職場的亂象分析】
: A. HR素質落差很大,為什麼?
因為整個HR產業長進的寥寥可數阿
國外老早就在流行Business Partner(不知道怎麼翻)概念了
就是用市場更敏銳跨部門的人來當HR
可能本身就是技術背景、可能本身當過Hunter、可能本身做過業務
結果台灣HR還一堆躲在象牙塔裏面
知識吸收速度超慢
市場資訊無敵落後
: B. HR就是資方走狗,打壓勞工的打手?
差不多吧,台灣很多HR都是這樣啊,做到高層後開始跳槽
然後到外商去就開始自宮,砍假砍補助當KPI升官
不要以為沒有,我就真的親身經歷過
你在那邊噴勞工連檢舉違反勞基法的公司都不敢
那又有看過多少HR直接在公司內部公開呼籲:
希望大家減少加班能夠有正常生活(work life balance)?
大多只在意"打卡"時間吧,免得被檢舉的時候被罰錢
此外,多數HR對於"效率"這塊通常都沒什麼敏感度
所以HR很多時候弄出來的東西都只是讓大家更痛苦
薪水部份我不方便評論
不過你列的數字太低太低了......
一些T1~T2外商的基層HR你中階主管的數字起跳
不過人家HR大概都只有三個以內就要涵蓋(cover)兩百人上下的公司
: 【結論】
你講了那麼多,我看不到你自我檢討HR被大家噴的因素
待遇給的太差=>老闆問題
專業度不足=>個人問題
所以都不是台灣HR的問題,是台灣勞工的問題了?
這種心態丟出來還要大家支持你們? 我是覺得很好笑啦
實際上你講的東西都不是HR問題的核心
你只是把HR日常吃喝拉撒睡列出來然後說自己好辛苦
同樣為後勤部門(Supporting Function),我對HR的建議是
後勤部門目標就是要Support前線/專業部門
那你要支援(Support)他們就是要先讓他們爽
爽不是說要給他們使喚、幫他們按摩買便當、拋棄公司底線之類的
而是要減少其他部門的麻煩
後勤部門應該是要讓公司內部更有效率,而不是更多雜事
你說你想做的事情公司高層不一定會同意阿?
那是你的問題,你不是號稱專業的HR? 那就要有本事把效果量化讓管理層知道
這些對於公司的效益是好的、對於公司營收or獲利是有幫助的
不過我猜HR沒這種本事,所以只能砍假砍薪水直接反應在P&L上面最簡單惹
對吧?
--
※ 引述《REN0 (飛翔的任)》之銘言:
: 【1.人資專業精簡介紹】
: A.招募與甄選 (選)
就我知道的在台灣,高薪一點的位置其實都是透過Hunter
幾家不透過Hunter的就是M$、Google...之類一些領導地位科技產業
(不過派遣工(Contractor)還是會有人力仲介公司幫忙招募就是了)
外商大藥廠天天用Hunter、外商FMCG高一點薪水的也都用Hunter
為什麼不In-house recruiter? 因為好的recruiter年薪大概就是一百五起跳
問題是缺又不是天天開,不如給hunter去做
就我接觸過的啦,外商藥廠那種多數傳統HR做上來的腦袋都跟不太上時代
少數從Hunter端來的、甚至有些非正統(可能待過業務、技術相關)通常都比較活
實際上recruiter本身需要對市場非常敏銳
你要講得出來公司產品強在哪
你要講得出來產業願景如何
你要講得出來候選人的職涯可能性
你要跟不同的候選人去交換資訊
我認識的厲害的國內外Hunter/recruiter是會去讀一些期刊的
看不懂專有名詞沒關係,至少要了解應用
: B.企業教育訓練 (訓)
教育訓練這一塊,我覺得HR能安排的通常都是軟性技能
或是法規要求的常態性課程
說真的,沒什麼太難的地方
: C.績效管理 (用與留)
那個,我以為HR績效這塊只教大家怎麼把東西放進去系統裡面
請問一下HR要怎麼設定專業的量化指標給部門?
工程師們的指標要怎麼設定? 業務指標要怎麼設定? Marketing指標要怎麼設定?
HR能做的就是告訴大家你們在系統裡面要填那些東西
剩下的就是跟主管說: 你們今年必須要有幾個C就這樣
績效連結薪酬? 我在藥廠的時候是有專門的人在算的
那個人絕對不是HR,而是策略部門(Strategy team)
因為每一季的累進指標都不一樣,要達到實質有鼓勵的效果
就必須要跟著市場概況去調整
HR數字能不要搞錯就好了
: D.薪酬管理 (用與留)
說真的...這只有勞基法改的時候你需要跟工程師配合一下
把系統的東西修進去
現在一堆東西都系統化了,薪資這種除非全公司結構大改
不然每個月給薪的東西都有ERP幫你解決了
某些補助審核可能比較討厭,因為你要單據下去看
可是像是油資補助之類的業務性質補助都是會計在看的
另外像你說的薪資級距也只是買外面的報告阿
我還沒看過會用統計軟體分析的HR呢
: E. 接班人計劃
這個也能算是重要工作?
不管是啥接班人/Starter/領袖 blablabla計畫
通常都是招海龜背景學歷漂亮的人進來啦
每個部門稍微沾個醬油,然後就開始空降塞成小主管
接著就是看造化,心理素質強的就會活下來
一堆基層能力不錯的都是被忽略的那群 呵呵
: F.人力資源發展策略
那個,台灣HR基本上最缺的就是這塊
連自己公司做什麼東西好像都搞不太懂
只會念PPT上面公司的簡介
競爭對手現在在做什麼你知道嗎?
國際相關產業狀況你知道嗎?
如同我上面說,細節或是原理無法理解沒關係
一堆IT相關產業的HR連S&P500出來的候選人都說人家是小公司呢XDDDDDD
: 【2.台灣職場的亂象分析】
: A. HR素質落差很大,為什麼?
因為整個HR產業長進的寥寥可數阿
國外老早就在流行Business Partner(不知道怎麼翻)概念了
就是用市場更敏銳跨部門的人來當HR
可能本身就是技術背景、可能本身當過Hunter、可能本身做過業務
結果台灣HR還一堆躲在象牙塔裏面
知識吸收速度超慢
市場資訊無敵落後
: B. HR就是資方走狗,打壓勞工的打手?
差不多吧,台灣很多HR都是這樣啊,做到高層後開始跳槽
然後到外商去就開始自宮,砍假砍補助當KPI升官
不要以為沒有,我就真的親身經歷過
你在那邊噴勞工連檢舉違反勞基法的公司都不敢
那又有看過多少HR直接在公司內部公開呼籲:
希望大家減少加班能夠有正常生活(work life balance)?
大多只在意"打卡"時間吧,免得被檢舉的時候被罰錢
此外,多數HR對於"效率"這塊通常都沒什麼敏感度
所以HR很多時候弄出來的東西都只是讓大家更痛苦
薪水部份我不方便評論
不過你列的數字太低太低了......
一些T1~T2外商的基層HR你中階主管的數字起跳
不過人家HR大概都只有三個以內就要涵蓋(cover)兩百人上下的公司
: 【結論】
你講了那麼多,我看不到你自我檢討HR被大家噴的因素
待遇給的太差=>老闆問題
專業度不足=>個人問題
所以都不是台灣HR的問題,是台灣勞工的問題了?
這種心態丟出來還要大家支持你們? 我是覺得很好笑啦
實際上你講的東西都不是HR問題的核心
你只是把HR日常吃喝拉撒睡列出來然後說自己好辛苦
同樣為後勤部門(Supporting Function),我對HR的建議是
後勤部門目標就是要Support前線/專業部門
那你要支援(Support)他們就是要先讓他們爽
爽不是說要給他們使喚、幫他們按摩買便當、拋棄公司底線之類的
而是要減少其他部門的麻煩
後勤部門應該是要讓公司內部更有效率,而不是更多雜事
你說你想做的事情公司高層不一定會同意阿?
那是你的問題,你不是號稱專業的HR? 那就要有本事把效果量化讓管理層知道
這些對於公司的效益是好的、對於公司營收or獲利是有幫助的
不過我猜HR沒這種本事,所以只能砍假砍薪水直接反應在P&L上面最簡單惹
對吧?
--
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at 2019-09-27T22:57
at 2019-09-27T22:57

By Oliver
at 2019-09-30T04:39
at 2019-09-30T04:39

By Quintina
at 2019-10-03T15:35
at 2019-10-03T15:35

By Thomas
at 2019-10-05T09:23
at 2019-10-05T09:23

By Frederic
at 2019-10-07T22:14
at 2019-10-07T22:14

By Audriana
at 2019-10-10T14:27
at 2019-10-10T14:27

By Bennie
at 2019-10-12T01:40
at 2019-10-12T01:40

By Ula
at 2019-10-15T17:38
at 2019-10-15T17:38

By Callum
at 2019-10-17T07:14
at 2019-10-17T07:14

By Michael
at 2019-10-21T03:57
at 2019-10-21T03:57

By Caitlin
at 2019-10-22T22:12
at 2019-10-22T22:12

By Emma
at 2019-10-25T12:00
at 2019-10-25T12:00

By Sierra Rose
at 2019-10-28T05:32
at 2019-10-28T05:32

By Lucy
at 2019-10-28T10:16
at 2019-10-28T10:16

By Lucy
at 2019-10-29T10:53
at 2019-10-29T10:53

By Tracy
at 2019-11-02T00:06
at 2019-11-02T00:06

By Todd Johnson
at 2019-11-05T01:30
at 2019-11-05T01:30

By Ophelia
at 2019-11-07T21:04
at 2019-11-07T21:04

By Kristin
at 2019-11-11T23:49
at 2019-11-11T23:49

By Ula
at 2019-11-13T23:09
at 2019-11-13T23:09

By Carol
at 2019-11-15T20:54
at 2019-11-15T20:54

By Ingrid
at 2019-11-20T09:02
at 2019-11-20T09:02

By Carol
at 2019-11-22T08:09
at 2019-11-22T08:09

By Mason
at 2019-11-23T12:35
at 2019-11-23T12:35

By Kelly
at 2019-11-27T02:41
at 2019-11-27T02:41

By Kumar
at 2019-11-30T21:05
at 2019-11-30T21:05

By Ina
at 2019-12-04T09:26
at 2019-12-04T09:26

By Necoo
at 2019-12-07T14:53
at 2019-12-07T14:53

By Donna
at 2019-12-11T12:40
at 2019-12-11T12:40

By Oliver
at 2019-12-16T10:52
at 2019-12-16T10:52

By Callum
at 2019-12-18T10:37
at 2019-12-18T10:37

By Dorothy
at 2019-12-21T23:17
at 2019-12-21T23:17

By Oliver
at 2019-12-22T19:23
at 2019-12-22T19:23

By Ophelia
at 2019-12-26T22:14
at 2019-12-26T22:14

By Suhail Hany
at 2019-12-27T18:28
at 2019-12-27T18:28

By Sierra Rose
at 2020-01-01T06:28
at 2020-01-01T06:28

By Belly
at 2020-01-05T16:10
at 2020-01-05T16:10

By Selena
at 2020-01-08T07:06
at 2020-01-08T07:06

By Carolina Franco
at 2020-01-11T21:18
at 2020-01-11T21:18

By Gary
at 2020-01-15T16:52
at 2020-01-15T16:52

By Sierra Rose
at 2020-01-17T22:38
at 2020-01-17T22:38

By Emily
at 2020-01-19T08:34
at 2020-01-19T08:34

By Rae
at 2020-01-20T14:18
at 2020-01-20T14:18

By Frederic
at 2020-01-24T08:18
at 2020-01-24T08:18

By Victoria
at 2020-01-27T11:02
at 2020-01-27T11:02

By Andy
at 2020-01-30T08:17
at 2020-01-30T08:17

By Genevieve
at 2020-02-02T04:23
at 2020-02-02T04:23

By Joe
at 2020-02-05T05:11
at 2020-02-05T05:11

By Oscar
at 2020-02-08T11:32
at 2020-02-08T11:32

By Jake
at 2020-02-12T04:33
at 2020-02-12T04:33

By Tracy
at 2020-02-12T06:09
at 2020-02-12T06:09

By Gilbert
at 2020-02-14T14:50
at 2020-02-14T14:50

By Jake
at 2020-02-18T09:09
at 2020-02-18T09:09

By Caitlin
at 2020-02-22T23:04
at 2020-02-22T23:04

By Freda
at 2020-02-24T15:37
at 2020-02-24T15:37

By Lily
at 2020-02-25T06:51
at 2020-02-25T06:51

By Carolina Franco
at 2020-02-29T20:27
at 2020-02-29T20:27

By Faithe
at 2020-03-03T06:39
at 2020-03-03T06:39

By Susan
at 2020-03-06T04:05
at 2020-03-06T04:05

By Faithe
at 2020-03-07T16:49
at 2020-03-07T16:49

By Edwina
at 2020-03-11T19:32
at 2020-03-11T19:32

By Daph Bay
at 2020-03-11T22:36
at 2020-03-11T22:36

By Yedda
at 2020-03-14T19:12
at 2020-03-14T19:12

By Michael
at 2020-03-16T18:44
at 2020-03-16T18:44

By Cara
at 2020-03-17T22:28
at 2020-03-17T22:28

By Ula
at 2020-03-22T04:53
at 2020-03-22T04:53

By Belly
at 2020-03-25T16:21
at 2020-03-25T16:21

By Eden
at 2020-03-28T20:46
at 2020-03-28T20:46

By Mia
at 2020-03-31T05:54
at 2020-03-31T05:54

By Adele
at 2020-04-04T03:07
at 2020-04-04T03:07

By Lauren
at 2020-04-07T14:31
at 2020-04-07T14:31

By David
at 2020-04-10T21:58
at 2020-04-10T21:58

By Ethan
at 2020-04-11T07:28
at 2020-04-11T07:28

By Susan
at 2020-04-15T18:56
at 2020-04-15T18:56

By Agnes
at 2020-04-18T12:00
at 2020-04-18T12:00

By Lucy
at 2020-04-21T22:36
at 2020-04-21T22:36

By Margaret
at 2020-04-24T20:21
at 2020-04-24T20:21

By Irma
at 2020-04-26T16:47
at 2020-04-26T16:47

By Hamiltion
at 2020-04-28T02:56
at 2020-04-28T02:56

By Ingrid
at 2020-04-29T18:38
at 2020-04-29T18:38

By Lily
at 2020-05-02T23:41
at 2020-05-02T23:41

By Poppy
at 2020-05-05T03:29
at 2020-05-05T03:29

By Olga
at 2020-05-07T07:54
at 2020-05-07T07:54

By Regina
at 2020-05-08T08:16
at 2020-05-08T08:16

By Olga
at 2020-05-13T06:32
at 2020-05-13T06:32

By Jacky
at 2020-05-17T22:46
at 2020-05-17T22:46

By Edward Lewis
at 2020-05-19T08:43
at 2020-05-19T08:43

By Lydia
at 2020-05-20T10:28
at 2020-05-20T10:28
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at 2020-05-22T08:01
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at 2020-05-24T14:02
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at 2020-05-26T13:19
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at 2020-06-02T07:02
at 2020-06-02T07:02
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at 2020-06-05T15:12
at 2020-06-05T15:12
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By Damian
at 2020-06-05T16:29
at 2020-06-05T16:29
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By Hazel
at 2020-06-07T08:08
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By Rachel
at 2020-06-08T07:40
at 2020-06-08T07:40
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By Andy
at 2020-06-11T18:40
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at 2020-06-15T04:30
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By Agnes
at 2020-06-15T17:41
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at 2020-06-19T14:05
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at 2020-06-20T14:00
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at 2020-06-25T00:09
at 2020-06-25T00:09
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